Mar 09 2009
Talking With Terrorists
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
According to Helene Cooper and Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times, President Barack Obama said in an interview Friday that the worsening situation in Afghanistan may make it necessary for the U.S. military to “reach out to moderate elements of the Taliban, much as it did with Sunni militias in Iraq.”
Moderate Taliban? Isn’t that an oxymoron?
Okay, enough with the wisecracks. Back to the story.
“Mr. Obama pointed to the success in peeling Iraqi insurgents away from more hard-core elements of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, a strategy that many credit as much as the increase of American forces with turning the war around in the last two years,” write Cooper and Stolberg.
“There may be some comparable opportunities in Afghanistan and in the Pakistani region,” the president. But he also added that any solutions to be found for Afghanistan “will be complicated.”
Obama spent much of the 35-minute interview talking about the U.S. government’s fight against Islamic militants in Afghanistan and other spots around the globe. The president seemed to take positions that were more in line with those of his more hawkish predecessor. For instance, he did not rule out the possibility of using extraordinary rendition – a highly controversial policy whereby the U.S. government whisks terrorist suspects out of hostile nations.
The president had discussed a possible rapprochement with the handful of sane Taliban members during the 2008 campaign, telling voters that such an idea “should be explored.” Several high-ranking commanders in the U.S. military have also considered reaching out to the radical Islamic group.
After assuming the presidency in late January, Obama “started a review of policy toward Afghanistan and Pakistan intended to find a new strategy, and he signaled that reconciliation could emerge as an important initiative, mirroring the strategy used by Gen. David H. Petraeus in Iraq.
“If you talk to General Petraeus, I think he would argue that part of the success in Iraq involved reaching out to people that we would consider to be Islamic fundamentalists, but who were willing to work with us because they had been completely alienated by the tactics of Al Qaeda in Iraq,” said the president.
You know things are going bad for you in a war when you have to break bread with members of the enemy camp in order to bring about a peaceful end. I will bet there are more than a few Americans here who long for the good old days when you could just drop a couple of A-bombs on the enemy’s capital and skedaddle back home in time to for the victory parade.
Unfortunately, in today’s wars the enemy does not often have a capital, just a bunch of caves. While this Animal does not relish the prospect of shaking hands with Islamic nubjobs we supposedly defeated seven and a half years ago, such an action may be necessary to end this highly destructive and frustrating conflict. It appears to have worked in Iraq and I just hope it can work in Afghanistan as well.
Hey GWB gave the Taliban like $43 million bucks before 9/11, his daddy funded Bin Laden through the ISI in pakistan. We’ve been in bed with these guys for a long time. They do special little deeds for the company.
Yeah I like how, in today’s world where money is everything, the one glaring thing missing from the 9/11 commission (well besides some fricking honesty) was how this whole thing was paid for. Like that wouldn’t be relevant or worth researching. In fact they said that they didn’t think who paid for it was relevant…
…
wait what? Who paid for the largest attack on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor isn’t relevant? Are you kidding me?
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
-Batman
True skw,
The 9-11 commision didn’t even see fit to mention the collapse of WTC7 hmm I guess buildings fall down all the time. No need investigate.
I guess it’d be different if we’d never had a steel building collapse due to structural fires before/after 9/11…
Oh wait, that really never did happen except on 9/11. And then it happened three different times.
You know things are going bad for you in a war when you have to break bread with members of the enemy camp in order to bring about a peaceful end. I’ll bet there are more than a few Americans here who long for the good old days when you could just drop a couple of A-bombs on the enemy’s capital and skedaddle back home in time to for the victory parade.
Animal,
I don’t think there is anything wrong with talking to your enemies. We don’t want to be there one day longer than we have to. The taliban knows this, so if talking to us makes us leave sooner I think they might be open to talking with us. Afghanistan is a mess anyways, 7 years later we haven’t made it that much better there.. why continue to waste our tax dollars there? I bet if they held a referendum in Afghanistan, most people would want us to leave. They see us as a worse threat than the taliban according to some news reports. lets cut our losses who cares how its done!
Oldfart,
If its easier for you to put words in my mouth so you can form an argument feel free. But I have read studies by physicists and engineers saying they think explosives were uesd to take the towers down.. Try harder your arguments suck.
Oldfart,
You said “Dsent will undoubtedly say that they were blown up to provide more oil to oil companies. ???????” I never said anything like that. To say such a thing is just stupid to me, but then I didn’t say it, you did. The reports we have are from the NIST, and those are weak and lame, much like your arguments. The NIST reports have been demolished by many credible and qualified scientists. But don’t think I am mad at you… Not at all. You don’t make sense, why should that make me mad?
@oldfart - it’s actually skw. And building 7 was not hit by a plane at all.
oldfart,
I know why we went to Afghanistan, to get Osama Bin Laden… supposedly. (Check my blog to see a counter point to this assumption) We have been there 7 years, where is he? Obviously he isn’t there. So why continue this futile effort to bring Afghans together? Nation building isn’t a good enough reason to stay.
If the Afghans want to get along let them do it on their own accord, I don’t think that we should be there trying to build them a country from scratch. We need our miltary for bigger and better things.
Ok, animal, I’ve just gotta wade in here, and you knew it, didn’t you?
Pauly, I WAS in the military, and there’s no faster way for a political leader to lose the respect of his troops than to be seen as too stupid to see what the troops can see with their own eyes. They are on the ground and can see things going to hell. Those are their own buddies dying beside them, and to have a political leader stand up and try to tell them they AREN’T losing when they know damn well they are would be a disaster for Obama.
Obama is NOT an idiot, and 60% of the American people agree with his handling of his job so far. I guess you are in the minority.
Obama has promised to change the way we are fighting in Afghanistan, and intends to keep going into Pakistan to go after Osama, or did you miss that? Sounds like he’s got a few good ideas to me.
“Ok, animal, I’ve just gotta wade in here, and you knew it, didn’t you?”
Okay, but just remember that you and Oldfart are only allowed to agree on three articles of mine. Otherwise, i’m going to have to start deleting your posts in case people see your guys’s agreements as a sign that the world really is coming to an end.
Pauly, I have to say, I’m with Oldfart and R on this one. I don’t think that a commander-in-chief telling the troops something they can see with their own eyes is that big a deal as long as he has a plan to improve the situation, and it looks like he’s trying to do that. It’s a mess over there and we have to do everything we can to fix it, if possible.
I think you’ll at least agree with me, Pauly, that we don’t want to go back to the days when George W. Bush would say everything was honky-dory in Iraq when that place was going to hell and would only change course when he absoluteely had no choice. That’s not real leadership.
“I didn’t say you lie to them and say everything is hunky dory. Try reading that again.”
You misunderstood me, Pauly, I wasn’t saying that you thought a president should lie and tell the troops everything is ok when it really is not in fact, i was saying the opposite, that i thought you DIDN’T want that to happen.
I agree with you on Pakistan, we can’t bomb or invade them, but we have to somehow get that govt to crack down on Islamic terrorists. Maybe they’re doing that now, i don’t know.
@ Bobo - I know it went back to a Pakistani source, originally. It wasn’t investigated past that. Not in the 9/11 commission where they failed to even address the issue. It just seems like a big thing that should have been investigated.
I really, at this point, have given up on my explanation for 9/11. I just know that the reports that we’ve been given have been lacking in evidence and are really almost insulting.
Take the instance of finding one of the terrorists ID’s in the WTC rubble? Are you kidding me?
There’s just a lot up to question with it. I don’t claim to “know” what happened, and I think that’s how most people feel about it.
Bobo,
I read the NIST report, I read popular mechanics explination and I’ve read numerous articles debunking PMs explination. Basicly you confronted me with insults. So there is nothing to defend. You wanna call names, go to the play ground, ya wanna debate, bring more game than that son.
I have to agree with Oldfart again (can I keep this up, or can he stand it anymore either?)
Pauly, not only was I in the Army, but I was trained in ROTC, and if there was one thing that was emphasized by Army training, it is that commanders have to be honest with their troops. In my opinion, that goes double with someone like the POTUS.
No, we don’t want to be defeatist, but honesty in this case means admitting that things are not going our way, determining what the issues are making it so, and doing something positive to fix those issues. All things that Obama is doing now in regards to that conflict.
And we are not “attacking” our ally. We are sending Predators into Pakistani territory to attack our enemies that are taking refuge in areas that that government does not control. In reality, if one does not control parts of one’s own territory, and one’s ally is willing to do damage to those that prevent you from controlling that territory, you’ve really got no reason to cry foul. You really should cooperate to encourage that action to get back that control.
Pakistani protests at our attacks are pro forma to satisfy local conservative elements that don’t like the US. In reality, I am sure that the government of Pakistan is delighted that we are willing to put American lives at risk to kill folks that are making life in their country difficult.
Do you REALLY want the Taliban to take over control of Pakistan AND their nukes?
I don’t.
I can understand the anger and frustration.
But I am not willing to expose myself and my descendants to that poison. Anybody that is for pure selfish reasons due to personal intellectual laziness is an idiot. If that’’s the way he feels then so be it.
So how is it, how anxious are you to eat radiation for political purposes?
oldfart,
I didn’t waste much time, took me minutes to provided you EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASK FOR, and if you did your research 7 yrs ago the facts were still comming in so you missed quite a bit including th NIST final reports, so it would follow that you haven’t done your homework. You just confessed to not having reviewed the NIST report which is at the heart of the matter.. Look you just want to be depricating. You ask for 1 peer reviewed article and I gave 3 to you, reviewd by scientists, architects and engineers. That Nature or Science doesn’t want to put their political ass on the line by taking on this issue is no suprise to anyone with a clue… so to ask for an article from those publications shows your lack of political savvy. Look, its not where something is published its what it says.. your holding out for an argument from authority and that is an arugment fallacy in itsself. I presented you with EXACTLY what you ask for and more but you didn’t even bother to review or critique it, you shifted ground and added the criteria that it come from specific publications. You cant maintain any credibility if you dont hold to the issues and info, if you want to hide behind corporate/establishment journals and claim that if they dont cover it then its not real. Well hide anywhere you like.. but you are hiding from facts and using argument fallacys, and then stating you wont present what you claim to know because it would take you too long… poor oldfart. if you cant stand the heat get the fuck out of the kitchen.. you engaged me.. and in argument its what one says not where its said or who said it, if you cant be socratic then what is the point in debating you at all? Like I said before your arguments are Weak and Lame. If you cant bring more game to this discouse then you are dismissed. If you bother to respond again, you better have something of substance I have read enough of your insults, argument fallacys and self agrandizements. The duce to you.
dsent;
Tell me, do you believe the Towers were hit by aircraft? Or is it your contention that they were dropped by explosives?
I’m not real clear on your opinion.
rwahrens,
WTF? Of course the Towers were hit by aircraft????? As for being droped by explosives. Well, I think we can see explosives on the video of them falling, but I wasn’t on site at the time. There are plenty people who were on site who have tesitified to hearing explosives including firemen. I am not prepared to say they are lieing. My opinion is that we dont really know what happened but that we have yet to have a serious official scientific investigation of the evidence. Remember the 911 commision did not even see fit to give one word to WTC7 collapsing.. Not one word! The largest crime in history and the people who were investigating did not see fit to mention a 47story building that simply fell down. Thats just beyond belief.
My own feeling here is that the conspiracy theories are just over the top. I mean geez, Al Qaeda has already admitted to the deed, the intelligence services have tracked the guys backwards that did it, There are plenty of documentaries I’ve seen that show how it happened.
Come on, EXPLOSIVES?! Do you have any idea how much that would take? How difficult it would be to wire such a building without building engineers finding out? In a modern structure like that, ALL the structural steel is hidden behind cosmetic walls & ceilings, and the proper locations for the explosives are not at all easily accessible.
Yes, it looks weird that both buildings dropped in their tracks so to speak, and usually it takes explosives experts to do so.
I’ve seen dozens of clips of buildings destroyed that way, and almost all of them end up coming down wit at least some sideways motion, especially the taller ones, unless they have been done by experts.
And there aren’t many firms that do that kind of thing. Count em on one hand nationwide, and they all have the advantage of building plans and demolition of walls & cosmetics that hide the attachment points from view.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see that a steel beam, under huge pressure, would crack with an explosive sound, either. Such a beam has lots of such beams, and as it collapses, there would certainly be enough pressure to snap a steel beam.
So, no, I can’t believe that anybody would have had the combination of knowledge, experience, motive and opportunity to bring down not one, but TWO of the tallest buildings in NY city simultaneously using explosives. It is just to incredible.
On the other hand, I, along with millions of other Americans, saw those two aircraft hit the buildings and saw the buildings collapse. they started falling AT THE FIRE FLOORS, just as the reports said, and I’d imagine a collapsing building like that would have enough momentum the bring the rest of it down.
Sorry, can’t buy it. Your “sources” are conspiracy sites, devoted to proving just what you are alleging, so they are starting from that point before they begin. Circular reasoning, which loses every time.
Sorry, but
“…such a BUILDING has lots of such beams…”
ham handedness wins again.
Oh Oldfart,
” Provide ONE peer-reviewed scientific article that agrees with your theory. Just ONE.”<<your words, nothing about which journal. Peer review, look the 911 commision was a group of conspiracy theorist. Your language doesn’t make sense, it is intelectually dishonest like your argument. You admited you didn’t read the NIST reports, I did. So go ahead and act like you know something. I guess what you dont know is what it means to be Socratic. The papers I provided you with were scientific and the same online journal that published them published papers agreeing with the commision report. So hey, your just confused. You haven’t done your homework, you haven’t read what you ask for, and I gave you, but you keep stomping your feet and claiming you know something… Ok ok granpa your right, dont worry about the facts, dont read the NIST reports, don’t read the critiques of those reports, don’t read conflicting reports.. Just spew condesending rhetoric. You are laughable man. You are discounting information you haven’t assessed and you are depending on information you havent assessed. …. what did you say before… uhh wait …”the less credible the evidence ( or totally missing evidence ) the greater the belief in the conspiracy theory.” THATS YOU lol you dont even know what it is your defending. You havent read the papers but inspite of having no evidence you are expressing a great belief in a conspiracy theory. YES its true you a a “Conspiracy Theorist” you just dont even know the details of the conspiracy you so firmly belive in… dude you have given me a good laugh tonight thanx.. but I have to dismiss you on this as you really arent arguing you are just demanding that you are right and ignoring any facts to the contrary.
You just love to lie oldfart, I did present you with evidence, you just reject it and dont read it, doing the research before the evidence is in does not count as doing the research. Its not my fault you cant recognize what I put right under your flippin nose. But since you refuse to even look at any opposing views we can agree on one thing, nuff said
Holy crap I missed the last part of this party…